11 - ‘We Africanists’: Gail Gerhart Interviews Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe, 1970

Summary

This interview was conducted by Gail Gerhart, who at that time was a graduate student at Columbia University. It took place during the mornings of 8 and 9 August 1970, in a rental car on the outskirts of Kimberley. Because of police surveillance and Sobukwe's banning order, no notes were made during the course of the interview. Gerhart audio-recorded her best recollection of what was said immediately after the meeting.

Gerhart. When did you first become interested in politics?

Sobukwe. My first awareness of politics was in 1948 at Fort Hare when I took a course in Native Administration. This course was taught by Ntloko and there was a text by Hanley(?). I had always known most of the facts as such, for example that Africans had three representatives in Parliament, but up to then I had merely accepted these as facts which one had to learn, to memorize, without thinking of their implications. During this course I began to realize what the reality was, for example that these white MPs had no effect on policy, in spite of the fact that they were eloquent speakers.

Ntloko was an AAC man, and the AAC was very influential at Fort Hare in those days. Most of us agreed with what the AAC stood for, except we didn't like the fact that they were not African nationalists. The Nationalists’ victory in 1948 helped politicize me.

Godfrey Pitje and I started the Youth League at Fort Hare. Pitje was the one who had had a connection with the early Youth League in the Transvaal. He was our link. He had known Lembede.

Gerhart. Did Pitje give you documents drawn up by the early Youth League, or statements of Lembede?

Sobukwe. No, we never saw these. We drew up our own documents. It was all conveyed to us through conversation and discussion.

Gerhart. Did you favor the efforts in the late 1940s to reunite the AAC with the ANC?

Sobukwe. Yes, very strongly. We wanted total unity, though; not a federation. We always felt that federations were inherently weak. This was also the case with the Africanists later when Madzunya's group wanted to federate with us. We wanted unity, not a federation.